Short update (12/02/12): While I was not going to publish comments by any RINJers coming in here for a bawww at me, I have elected to do so as yet another piece of the mounting evidence of how they uphold each other in their odium as well as the silly accusations/threats they level. You will note that one replier tells us he/she is not, in fact, a RINJer, but as the old saying goes, “If it looks like it and smells like it…” Anyway, to the post:
Some time ago, there was a move to have appalling pro rape-joke pages closed down on Facebook. Many individuals and groups were involved, myself included. Out of this, the Rape Is No Joke (RINJ) group was formed. At first, I supported this group. It seemed comprised of gutsy women and men who were uncompromising in their quest to have these pages removed. They appeared to enjoy a measure of success persuading businesses whose ads were linked to these pages, to withdraw their sponsorship.
All good, right?
I wish that were the case. In the months since the forming of this group, I have seen people attacked and banned for disagreeing even slightly (such as asking for trigger warnings), harassed, bullied and slandered. “Fringe lunatics” comes to mind as an apt term. I am a feminist and not always what you would call a “moderate” one; I too, have been called “extremist” for protesting that rape is not funny. I am also aware that any feminist activity is in some corners instantly derided as “extremism”, especially when that activity offends those in whose interest it is to keep degrading and subjugating women. Accusations of extremism often mean somebody is peeved because we won’t compromise – won’t, for example, be persuaded that we have no sense of humour because we don’t think a cartoon of a rape victim shouting “encore!” as her rapist runs away is “funny”. I support work that might be different from how I would proceed if a common aim is being shared. But RINJ is something different.
While, as followers of my blog will know, I do not think it’s inherently anti-male to focus on violence to women (and in this case the rape jokes were being made about women), this group has crossed far over the line of worthy discussions and focus on socially-accepted misogyny into violent misandry and ridicule of male survivors. This behaviour is exactly what feminism doesn’t need, as the more intellectually lazy, hostile or uninformed automatically believe that this behaviour represents all feminists. RINJ is becoming a joke, and not just among those whom it serves to slam feminist activism.
They have systematically alienated many people – some whom I personally know – who would have been worthwhile allies. Now, where is this going? Well, I had been worried about things like the above for some time, but the dizzy limit came for me when a friend showed me this, from the RINJ FB page:
Exit all relationships with men who abuse women. Some 42% of Australian women who had been beaten up in a previous relationship reported violence by the new partner which suggests there are a lot of really stupid, ignorant Aussie women who go back for more abuse from abusive men and seem to like it. Women who support Kyle Sandilands seem to be in that category. Save yourselves, sisters. Don’t accept abuse from men. Get therapy or other help but get out of all relationships with males who abuse women be it in your home or on your radio.
I won’t get started on the ridiculous assertions about Australian women (which I am) and those of us disposed to liking Kyle Sandilands (whom I detest). That silliness is entirely beside the point of this post. The point of this post is, oh, you guessed it clever-clogs, the odium levelled at women who have experienced domestic violence.
After seeing this and being incensed by it, I made a Facebook status update posting that paragraph, with words to the effect that any RINJ group member who supported that sentiment should feel free to unfriend me. Several FB buddies replied with statements of support and expressing their own concerns about this group.
However, one of RINJ’s most virulent adherents had this to say:
I said you would be stupid and ignorant to go back to an abusive relationship. I believe that any women would be stupid to go back to an abusive relationship. From the time I was 9 until I was 13 and escaped from the people who owned me in (place name) I and my sister were raped and beaten several times every week. I saw girls who escaped with a “customer” or potential buyer but they came back on their own because they were so scared of the world and didn’t know where to get food or simple medicine. Some say Stockholm syndrome. Nonsense. They stupid. We always thought they were stupid and ignorant for coming back. We did n’t trust. They were the ones who tattled too. They brought pain and death to their sisters. They never got any benefit from our abusers because they too had contempt for the simpering fools who were so much under control they came back for more. They were ignorant of how to survive on their own. They were stupid to come back. When I and three others escaped it was because for months we planned it and hid pieces of rope and stuff we needed–we put stuff everywhere. My sister was killed. You will never convinced me it is anything less than stupid and ignorant to deliberately return to the control of an abuser.Yes I am strange and sometimes a little bit crazy. I hate myself all my life so it hardly matters that you do. My friends in RINJ dot Org treat me like one of them. Lovely misfits we are, one and all. Our stories we seldom share but when we sit for coffee or come to another at 3 in the morning for to comfort in a bad night, we know from the look in the eyes there is a story untold. I don’t care obviously about most hurting done to me because it is less than I know already and I have learned to numb my mind but it is no less true that if you go back ever to an abusive relationship you are stupid and ignorant in my eyes. And if you accept the abusiveness of anyone’s tyranny you are just part of the kindling that starts the fire. If the mosquito can only feed on blood and there is no more blood, there is no mosquito. If the abuser feeds on willing victims and suddenly there is no more tolerance for abuse, there are no more abusers. Don’t accept the abuse of women by any man. And don’t distort my words as you have done because you don’t ever know when some day you may be held accountable for the harm you bring by bulling one single girl.
Friends of mine politely but firmly challenged this woman on her statements; they also empathised with her ordeal but were met with more (completely unfounded) charges of “bullying” rape victims, racism and hatred. Who was it but this self-described “lovely misfit” calling other survivors “stupid?”
It must be said that I have absolutely no wish to do further hurt to somebody who has been through what this woman has. She is very young, and obviously damaged – hence I have not named her even if I have a sense that others burned by this group will know to whom I refer. What interests me is that she subscribes to the perpetrator’s contempt for women that the perpetrator has enslaved and broken. She is to be empathized with to a degree, for identification with the perpetrator can be part of the trauma experienced in a situation of captivity, and this woman deserves and could benefit from, therapeutic help.
But isn’t part of the problem we face with domestic violence and rape the fact that a large proportion of society (including those running rape joke pages) share perpetrator-sympathetic views? Also, the problem with partner rape is that survivors often don’t feel comfortable in a setting of general rape survivors, because while it’s understood that victim-blame for rape survivors is wrong, the same understanding may not be present for those women raped in a context of domestic violence. Thanks, RINJ, for upholding these problems.
Indeed, It seems to be a common tactic of this woman and other RINJers to to adopt perpetrator-ish – or certainly abusive – behaviour, and then hide behind victim-status when challenged:
Wow.You all really have such class. None of you would have the guts to say all this to my face, you hide behind computer screens. At least the gang bangers who beat me up and raped me had the guts to get in my face.
Um, we were saying it to her face, as much as the internet allows. And do we let DV survivor-bashing slide because the person doing it has been raped? Yeah, not on my wall. As well, I can guarantee you, my reader, that the comments made in reply to her were firm, some angry, but respectful. Which is more than can be said for RINJ. One of my friends went onto the RINJ page to challenge this victim-blame and was told by none other than this same woman to “Fuck off” before being blocked. Nice, that. To say nothing of “class”…
And RINJ, far from being embarrassed about how they’re being represented, upholds this behaviour! Regardless of her sad, sad story, it is an absolute disgrace that this woman is supported in these statements as the representative of an organization purportedly set up to reduce harm and insulting behaviour to rape survivors and women in general. NOT okay. Nor does her own story give her the authority to speak on a cycle and situation she clearly does not understand.
Consider this offering from one of RINJ’s affiliates:
“There is no excuse, no analysis, no justification. Exit all relationships with men who abuse women. Period.”
My (rapidly deleted) response:
No education, no clue, no excuse for victim-blaming survivors of domestic violence.
Quick rant: And I suppose this ignoramus will feed and house the 4 children of a woman who wants to escape but has no money, will she? Will she extract an effective restraining order and make an arrest if it’s violated? Will she do anything about threats to take children away? What will she do about threats to kill? And perhaps she neither knows nor cares that the most dangerous period for women in violent relationships is when they are “exiting” them; the danger of battery, rape and murder at this time increases dramatically. Must be nice to be her.
And this, after RINJ was challenged about victim blame:
The nuances of victim blaming escape you as you dart across the street with a Kalashnikov because in Somalia, if you are woman, to survive you must hide.
True enough, even if I’m not sure what their point is exactly, but my answer would be that the nuances of victim blaming escape RINJ as they put the boots into domestic violence survivors as many women in our own neighbourhoods also must hide in order to survive because their ex-partners will shoot them, stab them, set fire to them or beat them to death. Or rape them again.
RINJ – quite rightly – protests against victim-blame of rape victims. But in blaming domestic violence survivors, they are THEMSELVES blaming what is one of the largest group of rape victims. Or is it okay with them to blame some rape victims?
RINJ does not speak for me.
I urge anybody who doesn’t want to be associated with victim blame and other excessive behaviour to disassociate themselves from this group. They are doing very real damage in a number of ways. Otherwise, in the eloquent words of a friend of mine:
If you feel that a victim of DV deserves what she (or he) gets or is in some way to blame get the hell off my Facebook (Blog, Twitter, whatever) because you are no friend of mine. Thanks.
Finally, to my sisters who have survived domestic violence – those still living with it, those who escaped, those who returned many times: You are NOT stupid. You are some of the strongest, wisest and funniest women I have ever been honoured to know. I am glad you survived the best way you knew how. To those still living with it, I hope you will find the safety and freedom you deserve. There is no way I or others will stand by and see you called names and judged, and certainly not by groups or individuals who purport to champion the cause of women. Just remember that a mouse may live in a cookie jar, but that don’t make it no cookie.
Further reading:
- Why I no longer support the Rape Is No Joke campaign on Facebook – Blogger and Feminist Theawinde’s experiences of RINJ lies and harrassment
- Seriously, RINJ? – Damsel in De Tech’s experiences
In the interest of fairness to Maxine, who has apologized, I have removed her comment.
Oh yes, wonderful. Another person suggestion that a woman abused by a male intimate automatically has the choice to leave and never see him again. And that she can take any children with her and still have that happen. Ignorance at its best.
Women who try to protect their children from their abusive partners are routinely punished in civilised society. They are blamed openly and loudly for having allowed them to be anywhere near an abuse situation, and the trauma that causes them. They are blamed for acting to protect their children by leaving a relationship so that they are no longer in an abusive environment, because it means they no longer have access to the abusive parent who is entitled to spend time with this children, regardless of how much of an arsehole he is. And she is ridiculed by idiots like you who believe that they know everything, if she goes back to an abusive relationship and takes the children with her, its because she obviously cares more about herself than them (really need a sarcasm font). Yet I’m sure you would brand her as abusive if she allowed the kids to visit unsupervised, as most courts will allow. I can understand going back to be there to try and protect the kids. Tell me how a victim of intimate partner violence is supposed to please anyone in this sort of situation (ignoring the fact that many abusive men continue their abuse after a relationship has ended).
People like you want to see the responsibility for rape placed (rightfully) on the rapist, not the victim, but can’t see the same thing applies in violent relationships. Why is his abuse her fault?
Bravo, Carleen.
Dear Lou, I have read this a few times and I always find I want to type a wonderfully worded argument and even decide exactly what I want to say. Then I change my mind, because these people have closed minds to anything other than their own opinions. So, I just feel like anything I might say would only be a waste of time because it would not change them and then it would only frustrate me more. Sigh. They just aren’t worth our time. Tell them all..well tell them ..nah just ignore them like I do, lol.
I love you and everything you do for women who haven’t found their voices yet.
Lisa
You rock too, lovely Lisa. I think ignoring is best sometimes…but I am not completely cut from that mature and moderate cloth
xxx
I came back here to see if I could delete this. I realise i shouldn’t have posted it, I wish I hadn’t. I’m sorry.
Thank you for your apology, Maxine, I accept it, particularly if you can promise you’ll refrain from saying hurtful things to survivors of domestic violence/partner rape in future. I truly can understand why you would question women going back to abusers. Many people do, but it just isn’t as black-and-white as some people seem to think it is. Many partner rape survivors do not have the luxury of being able to clearly identify what happened to them as rape – and it’s a certainty that a large proportion of society will also tell them they weren’t raped, or that it was their fault because they were having a relationship with the perpetrator. Survivors – even those who left in the face of great danger – beat themselves up horribly for having stayed, and the last thing they need is others doing it too. We have trouble telling about what happened to us precisely because of the pain caused by statements like the above. As far as children go, if you’ve ever done any reading on family courts, you’ll see that there is a tremendous bias against survivors of domestic violence, with kids routinely being handed over for access to abusers. The fact thast people don’t understand doesn’t make DV survivors bad mothers, crazy, stupid or any of the other judgments people level at them.
For what it’s worth, I’m sorry you were raped too, Maxine. I think it’s good to try and show empathy for all survivors, whether their situation is like ours our not. When you indicate that you’ve seen this post, I’ll remove it and all the others.
Take care,
Louise
What a lovely, moving response and I consider it a privilege to have assisted your loved one in some way x
Everyone who has been violated or abused will walk a path of healing that is specific and personal to them. But despite the differences in these processes of healing, I believe all these paths lead to the same goal and all lead parallel to each other. None of these paths are easy, but with the help and support of loved ones, friends, and of course other survivors, these paths can become less frightening.The comments alienating one type of a survivor from another make me sad. I would however like to take this opportunity to thank you, Louise. You have had a big impact and a very positive force on someone who is very very dear to my heart, and for that, I can never thank you enough. The internet will always create friction between people, but as I write this, know that you have rekindled my faith in humankind and that you've really helped someone I truly love.
While we're on the topic loucifer, might I add that without validity such as the kind you provide, I'd very likely still be blaming myself for staying in my own abusive relationship. It's terribly tragic that those who should be able to empathize and offer strength and support would rather call those struggling to come to terms with their own truth and their own journeys 'stupid'. For most of my marriage I didn't even really think to consider that the fault might not be my own. I thought it was my fault. That if I could be better, he could be better. So any reason he had to be unkind (and by that I mean horribly violent) I truly felt was bc of me. Regardless of a childhood filled with rape, I never even knew to call it such bc until you i didnt know it could be considered that in a marriage. Honestly Lou, it wasn't until meeting you and others like you that the notion that it wasn't my fault became even a foggy notion in my mind by seeing how supportive you were of others. Others like me. When you come from abuse to then marry abuse, the common denominator is you. I knew it wasn't how it should be, but it's what I knew. It's all I knew. And I'd always been taught it was my fault so why would I question it? I do know that two reasons I never really spoke of it until I left was bc I didn't want to cause others to feel helpless and for fear of finding judgement. Thanks fuck for people like you Lou. Who, even though you've come out on the other side, you've not forgotten how wretched the journey can be-and that it is different for each person. We're not stupid when we stay. We're surviving-as best we can. And when/if we reach that place where we do feel we can leave, I, for one, and so fucking thankful that I had someone like you in my life. Supporting and loving. Never judging. Just bc someone's journey doesn't mirror another's doesn't make them stupid. It makes them human. Bless you Lou. And Frankly fuck the twats that can't see past their own hypocritical cunts enough To realize what an incredible Allie they're trying to make an enemy. I count myself among the luckiest for knowing what a friend I have in you. X
I second that, Leanne. Thankyou, Kate xxx
Well you did just make me cry, my lovely friend. And I love you and your gorgeous wife too. Thank you xxxx
I love you loucifer and everything you stand for. You are a woman of strong convictions. A godess and a mother to the motherless. Anyone that knows you knows that your strength is paralleled only by your kindness and generosity of spirit. There's only one other woman I know with such spit fire and passion and kindess…and I married my feisty wife. You are loved. You are a legend. You are valued. You are irreplaceable in my life and so many others you have touched. I once read a quote that I've never forgotten. 'there is nothing so strong as gentleness, nothing so gentle as real strength'. You are a gem and I love every firey conviction and smoltering tears you stand behind. I got your back lady! X
Hear, hear! xx
I find it abominable that any person would ever try to say that their trauma was "worse" or "the superior trauma" in a group. This only discriminates, alienates, and minimizes other survivors' pain. It does the precise opposite of what this page claims to do. It is so sad that survivors can't get stand together.I don't care if you were raped by a complete stranger, date-raped, drugged or beaten, gang-raped, sexually abused as a child, or battered and raped by your partner. What I care about is that you were violated, like me, and I'll stand beside you in the path to healing. That is how I will always feel. We are all equal in our worth and right to healing, support, and love.Just as a complete stranger can use physical force and overpower a victim, so can a person in a position of trust or authority use emotional and psychological force to overpower someone close to them. It is a different variety of force, but it is no less powerful or damaging.Thank you, Louise, for not accepting this behaviour. Thank you for speaking out for the survivors who may not be so outspoken or eloquent.
Thankyou, Kate – You are, as ever, a woman after my own heart xx The RINJ info page on FB tells us this:"We listen to constructive criticism but one more attack is just one more attack for many of us. We forge ahead without stopping. There's no looking back. Most of our active volunteers are very young and some are 'extreme' victims. They are feminist guerrillas in many respects and just get the job done. It isn't always pretty."I'm not going to even start on what malarkey it is that they listen to constructive criticisms, nor shall I take too much time snorting childishly at imagery of feminist gorillas
. In line with what you were saying re "true victims", RINJ's logic tells us that their "extreme" victims (i.e. So Yoshiki) have a licence to malign us "lesser victims" and it's okay if it insults and degrades. You are so right – where do we draw the line if it's okay to blame some victims?xxxx
Lou, I can't agree more with what you have said here. No survivor benefits from invalidating those who have been through a different experience. If it is tolerated that women are "asking for it" by staying in a relationship with a violent partner, then it doesn't take much of a leap for people to determine that women are also "asking for it" by drinking in public – or even drinking in their homes – by wearing clothes that are deemed to be revealing, by the mere fact of being of woman in the first place. If you can minimise the experiences and rights of women in the context of domestic violence, what does that say about the rights of women in general? It might feel empowering to say that women who have been raped by a partner are stupid, are asking for it, or whatever other ignorant and hateful thing you can come up with, while you yourself were a "true victim" – but that power comes at the expense not only of the women you are shaming and denigrating, but of yourself as well as a woman and rape survivor. We should be jumping up and down that anybody is experiencing this soul-shattering, horrific crime, rather than pointing fingers of blame and invalidating those who are or have lived through it. As for the person complaining about being unable to carry on the conversation any further – do you realise that nobody has forced you to type in the URL for this site, least of all to reply? Just like real life, you are a guest here and if you don't like what is talked about then you have every opportunity to leave. Easy solution.
And before you do, please accept my congratulations for aligning yourself with groups and individuals who bastardize survivors of domestic violence. Wonderful!
Then get off my blog!
I refuse to carry on a conversation with someone who resorts to childish ways of communication. Liar Liar pants on fire? Give me a break. This is not worth my time.
Liar liar pants on fire.
I had no idea who RINJ is… or what an RINJer is…until i came across your page, and i don't really care. I just saw how you retraumatized that person… and I couldn't not say anything. Its not worth arguing about when you are so defensive… I just hope you are more sensitive to people in the future.
I might add than I can also hope that for the kind of very real slanders perpetrated against people by RINJ members – i.e. "rapist" and "paedophile", somebody actually will find the ability to sue. If the'yre not too busy laughing in derision and disbelief.
Okaaayyyy…and I imagine that this is another RINJer engaging in the same old technique of calling their detractors "rapists". Please, get over yourselves -it's boring. And no, I don't feel any shame for defending survivors of domestic violence against victim-blame – which often retraumatizes THEM. By the way, it was posted on MY FB page; I reproduced it without naming or including locations and Ms. Yoshiki came in here and identified HERSELF. But at this stage I am not sure it's possible to have a logical conversation with a RINJer, and I am not interested either in silly threats.
wow, to post that about someone, what you posted about the girl who was raped, Yoshiki, in Cambodia. OMG. You should feel ashamed, and she does have a right to sue, and I'm sure it will be taken care of. That young woman has been through hell and then you go and post her story on HERE, (she did post it on her page, but that was HER page where she trusted the people reading it.) Shame on you for EMOTIONALLY RAPING that girl. Yoshiki, you stand tall and proud of ALL you have survived and know you are better than any of these people who would retraumatize someone that has been what youve been through. Good luck with everything, I hope you never have to be traumatized like this again.
You are an inspiration, sister x
I too was a VERY angry young woman after suffering abuse from a stepfather. I hated the world for not caring and would brook no argument from anyone about my story. However, I am older now and have managed to put my suffering in to the context of the wider patriarchal nightmare that women live with every day. A turning point for me was a therapist telling me that my feeling that my stepfather was mad was correct. She said 'Well of course he was a psychopath'. 'Of course'? Oh. So my instincts were right – it wasn't my fault then? Does that mean I can rely on my instincts then? That means that I can listen to myself, I can TRUST myself when my mind tells me that I am with yet another abusive boyfriend? Oh. And then my world changed. Therapy, with the right therapist, rocks.
Thank you Anonymous, I'm truly glad to have eased your journey in some way xx
Louise,I just want to commend you on your work. I was born in an era where "date rape" was allowed. It was never discussed because somehow I deserved it. I ran around with all this buried shame until I ran across your work on the internet. It changed everything for me. Relating to the other women's stories helped me take back my own power. I do not feel so alone.Thank you.
Well, So Yoshiki, sue away! There is absolutely nothing slanderous in what has been posted; you DID say these things and the evidence is on my Facebook. Nor is is a "personal attack" – you were not even named, yet you come in here with abusive language attempting to shut critics down again. Please, for the love of god, get some help. Your obvious commitment to the cause will be enhanced when you develop better ways of responding to people. This is the last comment of yours I will allow to be published. This blog does not exist for you to throw abusive tantrums on. Go tell it on the mountain.
If you don't remove this personal attack on me I will sue you. You are disgusting bullies and have no right to slander me. Being raped in Cambodia was not as bad as being bullied by you assholes.
Your article has resounded with many people, Trish, and unfortunately I'm sure it will resound with a good many more as long as RINJ continues their "can't be wrong" behaviour. xo
Hi Louise,I was directed over here by you to read your post about what RINJ had done to you.I don't have a lot to say, I'm just a small city girl who likes to write in a blog on occasion and I never expected this article to reach so many people in the way that it did. Mostly because it brings me to people like you who write your own responses against them and let me know that I am not alone in this.Thank you for telling your story and thank you for sharing it with me.